Salesforce Marketing Cloud vs Pardot with Lucy Mazalon from The Drip

Video Recording: Salesforce Marketing Cloud vs Pardot with Lucy Mazalon from The Drip

Watch the previous episode of Heroes of Marketing Cloud here.

Find the links to the mentioned resources at the bottom of this page!

Transcript: Salesforce Marketing Cloud vs Pardot with Lucy Mazalon from The Drip

Anthony: Hi Lucy, welcome to this series!

Lucy: Hi thanks for having me, thanks for inviting me on.

Anthony: Well, it’s absolutely my pleasure. I’m a big fan. In fact, I would say the Drip well before we get to the Drip actually, could you introduce yourself to our viewers?

Lucy: Sure, as you said I’m Lucy, I’m based in London. I’ve been in the Salesforce ecosystem for about six years. I’ve been on the SI side, on the consultancy side, I’ve also worked with ISVs, but I finally settled on Marketing Automation as my specialization, especially Pardot. But I’ve always been interested in the wider marketing automation sphere. At the start of this year, I actually went to be a full editor of Salesforce Ben, and I’m the CO of Operations for the blog as well. I also run a Pardot user group in London and I got named the Salesforce Marketing Champion at the start of this year, so yeah, that was a real highlight for the year.

Anthony: So, I’m guessing you keep busy.

Lucy: Exactly, but actually before we get started with the other questions. I wanted to tell a story about how we got first connected, right?

Anthony: Sure!

Lucy: And this is what I love about the Salesforce ecosystem. It was when I was living in Lisbon at the time and that would just be this meet up every week a happy hour full of other people not from Lisbon would meet up and chat and I got talking to Jonathan, your co-founder, he just said, yeah I know a thing or two about Salesforce and it just so happened, you guys had the Marketing Cloud product, the app, and I’m someone who loves Salesforce Marketing Cloud as well. So it was just so funny, so coincidental how that all happened and look where we are now, we’re collaborating on a lot of different things.

Anthony: Well, I’m very glad you made the connection with Jonathan. I’m very glad that he travels the world now and again.

Lucy: Exactly.

Anthony: And actually, I wanted to elude a little bit about that earlier. Because the Drip is definitely one of the best resources to learn about Marketing Cloud or Pardot. Yeah, and I would even say even for people who’ve worked with for years still a very good resource, but can you actually tell us how that got started?

Lucy: Sure, well how the Drip got started was, I mean, I was selling projects between clouds, you know doing the things like scoping, requirements, proposal. That really put me into the habit of explaining things in laymans to people that were completely new to Salesforce and the platform itself, just explaining things simply then I took the role of a Pardot consultant. And to be honest with you I felt out of my depth, so what I started doing, every evening I got a habit of documenting the things that I learned that day and that’s basically how the blog started. I just published my notes, my body of notes that I’ve made and put them up into a post and I mean I love writing, so it wasn’t a chore for me. Now what I say the Drip Is very valuable for is kind of documenting the undocumented and consultants sharing their experiences with…

Anthony: Sorry, if I may interject which is something that comes up again and again in these interviews. People are looking for additional documentation or trying to provide it, So I think that look we have another visitor….

Lucy: Yes, this is Sashimi, and he needs to get on Trailhead soon.

Anthony: Fantastic, love having him or her?

Lucy: Him

Anthony: Having him a guest on the show. So, I think we left off on the documentation part. And actually, I was kind of curious about the habit of essentially documenting your own learnings every evening. I used to do something very similar. Where did you get the idea?

Lucy: Just because I need to write things down otherwise, I don’t remember them. Yeah, I need to write things down or whiteboard them, so that’s why I made this bank of information. I also had a ridiculously big glossary of acronyms because there are just so many acronyms in the Salesforce ecosystem. Yeah, that’s my little library.

Anthony: Absolutely. Funny, because we also tend to keep our own glossary internally. Looking ahead, how do you think Drip and Salesforce Ben will evolve in the next few years?

Lucy: Yeah, I mean, this is the thing there is always something to write about in the Salesforce ecosystem. Not only are there new features added with every release that people are interested in, they search for it, searching for this information, there’s also all these acquisitions happening as well, where all these products are getting integrated into the platform and what I love about our value proposition I guess is that we are an inclusive platform for everyone in the ecosystem to share their ideas on. So we support with that editing and positioning that content to the Salesforce audience so I’m just really looking forward to more thought leaders come on board and write about what they know, there’s always a gap into document the undocumented with industry that’s innovating so fast.

Anthony: Yeah, great stuff and I think a few of those potential thought leaders might be listening to today’s interview. So little shout out, reach out to the Drip. So you’ve been nominated a Marketing Cloud Champion, to which congrats by the way. What does it mean for you to be nominated?

Lucy: Sure, yeah, I mean it’s also really interesting, because for me as the ecosystem grows, you know so many people involved in the network of that Salesforce. The MVP system has branched out into these different specialized areas and I’m really honored to be recognized in marketing because that’s my passion and I guess what it means for me. Obviously, I’m going to continue writing. There’s no question about that, but what I’ve seen so far is connecting with other marketing thought leaders globally in this one centralized group and staying tuned because there’s going to be a lot of initiatives that would enable coordination with this connection. And also getting to know the product managers a little bit better as well and seeing how we can work collaboratively as well.

Anthony: I’ve seen great people, we had Guilda as one of our guests.

Lucy: Yes, she’s doing a great job running a program and whenever I talk to her I feel passionate about everything as well.

Anthony: Oh yeah, super energetic, absolutely. But actually, we know that you’re a Pardot specialist now that, you know, we at DESelect are all about Marketing Cloud so in what ways do you think the product is different from SFMC, you know, Pardot vs SFMC?

Lucy: So, yeah, I dabble a little bit in SFMC. I edit people’s posts I actually studied for one of the certifications a few years ago. My knowledge is a little bit rusty. When people say so, what’s the difference between Marketing Cloud and Pardot. The one-line response is B2B B2C, but that’s becoming a little bit outdated now, I think. To choose Pardot it depends on how close do you work with your Sales users if you need to work closely with the Sales team then Pardot is going to be a better solution and if you need to work closely with certain objects like the opportunity objects because you send your communications based on the opportunity life cycle then Pardot’s better but of course there are many considerations that you should take with Marketing Cloud. One being in house resources that you have available. So, I think that this B2B B2C split.

Anthony: It’s a bit outdated, huh?

Lucy: Yeah, there’s so much more to it now, and also there are some organizations that are using both.

Anthony: Yes, I’ve heard of. Actually, in your previous job as an SI did you encounter this question from a customer like hey, what’s the difference? Did you have any customers that use both?

Lucy: So personally I haven’t had any clients that have used both but I definitely had clients that were interested like curious about Marketing Cloud and almost questioning like okay why does an organization choose Pardot instead of Marketing Cloud and it’s just walking through all these differences with them and this does that common misconception that Pardot’s the starting product and then it goes to Marketing Cloud.

Anthony: Oh really?

Lucy: Of course, it’s not true. Because it’s more what you see is what you get but the way Pardot is moving now it’s going to be a force to be reckoned with. There are some great things happening in Pardot now to make it enterprise-level and completely legitimate.

Anthony: I used to be a Pardot specialist so don’t get me wrong. It was always a legitimate product, but the capabilities are just very different. I’d say, well, I don’t know how that has changed. I’m a little bit rusty on the Pardot side. Marketing Cloud was better for transactional communication I don’t know how that’s like for Pardot now?

Lucy: Mhm, maybe the legitimate product was the wrong phrase, but there were some misconceptions that I came across floating around where people would just think because it’s what you see is what you get, it’s not as powerful as Marketing Cloud. But that simply isn’t true. Yes, as I said I’m so excited to see what will be coming along, especially on the analytics side of things

Anthony: Now as you write the Drip you mentioned already that you edit the posts I’m sure that you know some of the pitfalls of SFMC as well. Are there any insights that you think our listeners would like to hear?

Lucy: Sure, yes, like I said my knowledge is a little bit rusty on Marketing Cloud, but one of the other Marketing Champions, Christina, wrote a great post recently on how to get started with Marketing Cloud, what she wished she knew, because she’s a Pardot specialist, right? And she did a few Marketing Cloud implementations that’s a great resource to check out. But mine is more generic I would say, my “what you should know”. This is something that crops up time and time again and it’s been a big block on the previous months which is user adoption. I think that it doesn’t matter how long you spend configuring the system. If your users aren’t going to use it then your project kind of falls on its face and I think it’s a shame that some organizations do not invest in user enablement beyond the first projects because obviously implementing Marketing Cloud is a big cost but some organizations just don’t bear the ongoing cost in mind to really see the value in the product. Another pitfall I would say make no assumptions about the data model. I think it’s really up to marketers to take responsibility now to understand the data models that go behind what they are doing, you know?

Anthony: Oh, I think that’s my favorite one.

Lucy: As to make segmentation so easy, right? But I think that Marketers don’t need to understand the data model in order to work effectively with Marketing Cloud.

Anthony: Our whole philosophy was always like we want to make sure that marketers could use our solution independently we want to make better marketers and I do think that marketer doesn’t have to be a data specialist let alone a data scientist. But having some understanding of data models would absolutely help you be a better marketer I feel.

Lucy: Yeah, definitely.

Anthony: Also thanks for mentioning the post that Christina wrote, we’ll make sure that we’ll mention it in the description of this video, so viewers can find that. So Lucy can you tell us a little bit more about your collaboration with Salesforce partners, whether they be software vendors like us or system integrators?

Lucy: Sure, yeah, so the partner ecosystem blows my mind. In the AppExchange there are so many different categories, so much on there. So we are very lucky to actually have 12 sponsors that we’ve got, who support the blog. The sponsoring falls in different categories, massive range categories and they really help to supplement the conversation on the blog, right? Although people are obviously aware of the AppExchange, there’s a whole educational piece of why you need to learn about AppExchange, and some things aren’t as well known. For example, the risk for Salesforce data if you don’t have a backup solution. There was not much awareness about that, so these sponsors really help us enhance that conversation that we were having.

Anthony: That’s very good to know, thanks for sharing that. We all know that marketing projects themselves usually go with tight deadlines, stress, sometimes quite a bit of a misunderstanding. And now during the pandemic, we have to adapt to the new normal as they call it what was the most challenging part for you in that period. Because you know, we noticed you work from home.

Lucy: Yes, aside from the kitten. Well to be honest the blog has been busier than ever, which I think is a nice sign.

Anthony: Oh yes, I noticed, absolutely.

Lucy: So I think that just means that people have been making the best out of the bad situation. If they have the quiet time they’re coming on learning more, researching, certifications, exploring different parts of the platform, and also writing for us. So yes, we’ve been busier than ever. But this year, I’ve taken on the task of doing pretty much something that I thought might not be possible but automating and operationalizing our content schedule and content pipeline. And I’m sure that this is the challenge that other marketers have and any editorial managers, something as subjective as content, how can we operationalize this? So that’s being my biggest challenge this year. But marketing automation in general, I sat down actually at the beginning of the pandemic and I just thought okay, what can marketers be doing in their Pardot org. Just to ensure that they are arming themselves for the next… for the changes... You know there’s so much fluctuation in how prospects were acting and reacting.

Anthony: Oh yeah, the market has constantly shifted and changed. It was very interesting to see how customer behavior was evolving and still is really.

Lucy: So I just compiled all my thoughts into one post, but it goes in different ways, okay, how should you be segmenting? What behavioral segmentation should you be looking at? Email data, you know, unfortunately, there’s a lot of people becoming unemployed. How is your email data looking? Cleaning and validating email addresses.

Anthony: Good point, yeah.

Lucy: And things like pulling reports from Salesforce to check how, you know, to see the new average deal life cycle length and different things like this so just keeping a pulse check on things around your Salesforce org that’s what is going to help marketers be proactive.

Anthony: Great stuff, I think we’ll want to put that blog post in the description so marketers can find it. I know that you’re super busy and I really appreciate that you were able to cut some time out of your schedule so do you have any closing thoughts that you would like to share with our audience?

Lucy: Oh yes, and I think we’ve touched on this a little bit throughout the chat we just had but I think that the Salesforce ecosystem is growing at such a crazy rate especially in the Marketing sphere. So I think it’s so easy to get overwhelmed and it’s so easy to feel that you’re not up to date on everything but it just occurred to me a few weeks ago, it is impossible, no one can keep up to date so just don’t get burned out to keep up to date with everything but just understand your specialization and not get burned out worrying, keeping tabs on everything that’s going on.

Anthony: Alright, understand your specialization, stay focused probably.

Lucy: Yes, it’s better to put it that way I guess.

Anthony: Take care of yourself, essentially, right? Great stuff Lucy, it was really a pleasure having you on this episode as well as your cat. Thank you so much for your time.

Lucy: Sashimi and I say thanks to you as well.

Anthony: Have a great day, bye-bye.

Lucy: Bye.

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